Here's a great question someone posed to me recently. What happened to people in the times of the Old Testament when they died? Also, here is a link to the doctrinal position of The Assemblies of God regarding eternal punishment. I find their site has doctrinal positions that resonate deeply with me, as well as a host of positions papers on contemporary issues.
http://www.ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/pp_4172_eternal_punishment.pdf
There is a place of paradise and a place of suffering where the righteous and the unrighteous go after death. How we understand the difference between the times of the OT and the NT is still and will always be slightly elusive because we just do not fully know, yet! (1 Corinthians 13:12)
However, Luke 16:19-31 is a great source of at least some understanding. It is clear here too that before Jesus, there was a means to paradise through the general revelation of God of Himself to the world. There was just not yet any way for the Spirit of God to dwell within the spirit of man until after Christ's death.
Some argue that before Jesus' death, this place of paradise for the OT righteous was not yet in the "full" presence of God...like a waiting room and that after Jesus' death, it was possible for them to be in His full presence, no longer vulnerable to His holiness because of the atoning work of Jesus on the cross. Those waiting in a place of suffering is not as confusing. The Bible is clear they will continue to wait in their suffering until their final judgement and what we term as the "second death" when they are cast into internal separation from God.
Others believe that paradise for OT and NT has always been the same and that how people from the OT could have been in the presence of God's holiness before Jesus' death is a mystery we will not fully understand until we get there ourselves. The one thing we know is not true is that after death we "sleep" or in some sort of holding phase...Luke 16 clearly rejects this. We also know that just as the suffering of the unrighteous will be transitioned from where they are now to a different place (see article above), that the paradise the Bible speaks of now will also transition. Jesus is at work creating a new heaven, a new paradise for all the righteous to enter into with Him for all eternity after the final judgement. (see the Assemblies of God web-site for a more detailed description of these, under the 16 Fundamental Truths, numbers 13, 14, 15, & 16).
Regardless of where you shake out on this, remember, eternal paradise and eternal punishment are our only two choices and the difference is based on a single choice we make in this life...embracing Jesus fully and being a devoted follower of His now. I hope you'll take the journey with us, so you can discover the full depth of life now and have the hope of paradise at your departure!
Pastor Fred
Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Tuesday, September 16, 2008
Adultery or Matrimony
The Sermon on the Mount is one of Jesus' most well known expositions on how to live out our beliefs day to day. Clearly, for Jesus, faith is not something to be explored in thought alone but reflected in our actions, our attitudes, our choices, instructing us, defining us, directing us, the foundation our identity. Jesus did not teach about spirituality as a component of our humanity but as the transcendent context over our entire lives. And in the fifth chapter of Matthew, verses 31 and 32, Jesus lays down some teaching that has been a source discussion, debate, and even division as He speaks to how our love for God and one another should govern marriage relationships, specifically divorce and remarriage.
"It was also said, Whoever divorces his wife must give her a written notice of divorce. But I tell you, everyone who divorces his wife, except in a case of sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
The Apostle Paul comes along and adds to what is often viewed as a "list that releases" by stating in his first letter to the Corinthians, the seventh chapter, that if one has a spouse who is not a devoted follower of Christ and does not want to be married to their spouse who is a devoted follower of Christ (the implication being that the believing spouse is being asked to choose between their faith in Christ and their spouse), then the unbelieving spouse is free to leave the marriage, to divorce.
The third most common reason clergy are willing to preside over weddings even if their has been a divorce in the past of one of the engaged parties is if the divorce occurred prior to their making a full profession of faith in Christ and living as one of His devoted followers. The logic being, and I agree, that we cannot expect people to live according to scripture in their spiritually unregenerate condition.
Because I believe the latter two are seldom in dispute, I want to concentrate my comments on the words spoken by Jesus in Matthew chapter 5. Granted, some would say that what Paul writes in Corinthians may be clear in regards to a person being free to divorce but being free to remarry is another issue entirely. We won't take up that issue in this posting, but I will say that I believe Paul's use of the phrase "is not bound" in verse 15 of 1 Corinthians chapter 7 implies being free to remarry if divorced in a way that is Biblical.
So, let's create the most difficult of scenarios. A man and a woman are devoted followers of Christ and their marriage ends in divorce. There is no adultery, by either spouse. We can imagine any of a number of instances. For example, they had special needs children and the demand of their care exhausted them. Or, one person seemed only interested in their career, never being home, completely neglecting the emotional needs of the other. Or, there was some trauma experienced, overwhelming grief of some kind that left one or both emotionally inept. Or, two people came to no longer love one another, both befuddled as to how they got there but both agreed the marriage was over. And for good measure, let's make it hard on ourselves, one spouse begged the other to stay, pledged to do whatever it would take to make it work, yet in the end, the other spouse denied their plea and the divorce ensued.
I'm sure you can think of many other circumstances, maybe your own personal circumstances. Some are maybe more complex, others maybe even more seemly inexcusable. The question before us is simply, are either spouse free to remarry without being viewed by God and The Church as an adulterer?
I may be on the verge of being accused of over-simplifying this very serious matter, but in my defense, I think that is in keeping with how Jesus Himself often responded to complex questions posed to Him. I don't believe that God ever intended the instructions of Jesus and Paul to be a closed, exhaustive list. I believe that God intended to teach a principle that is conveyed through examples given. I believe the principle that distinguishes between adultery or matrimony is whether or not the marriage has suffered damage that was irreparable. Jesus is saying that sexual immorality can be irreparable. Paul is saying spiritual discord can be irreparable. I believe God would agree that repeated physical abuse can leave a marriage in an irreparable state. If we take the stance that Matthew 5 and 1 Corinthians 7 are exhaustive lists, we've made no room for abuse. This alone compels me to believe a principle of irreparable condition is being taught and not a list to legalistically apply.
My approach as a pastor is to help a person who is divorced and intends to remarry to explore whether or not their past marriage is reconcilable or irreparable. Through prayer, honest conversation, hard questions, even professional counseling, we trust the Holy Spirit will guide us. This must be an honest, committed process, one that is often painful and even excrucitating. I am NOT proposing an "easy out" for people that just want to move on with The Church's "blessing." We are talking about a soul searching journey that may very well redeem a past relationship and if not, well prepare them so as not to repeat their past.
If we agree that the former marriage is irreconcilable, then a new process begins. Is it wise for the relationship they are in now to move forward towards marriage and how? There are a host of assessment tools available to clergy today, like Marriage Savers and for us to not avail ourselves and our marriage counselees to such resources is irresponsible. People who have been married before, if they have children, if there is abuse and trauma in their past, if they are culturally mixed...we must prepare them for the challenges this proposed marriage will face. Otherwise, we set them up for failure, more divorce.
If you would accuse me of lessening the sacredness of marriage, that I am elevating the need of the individual above the holiness of matrimony, I would rebut by saying that if we are going to turn the tide of divorce in our society, restore the sacredness of marriage, it will only be through the abundant propagation of healthy Christ centered marriages! Liberty grounded in wisdom and not restraint born out of legalism is always the prudent course.
I don't believe that God works off of lists. I believe His being is governed by truth. And the governing truth for me as a pastor in regards to discerning between Adultery and Matrimony is the principle of the irreparable relationship, beyond repair, that not only releases people to divorce but also gives them the liberty to re-marry.
Thanks for thinking with me!
Pastor Fred
"It was also said, Whoever divorces his wife must give her a written notice of divorce. But I tell you, everyone who divorces his wife, except in a case of sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
The Apostle Paul comes along and adds to what is often viewed as a "list that releases" by stating in his first letter to the Corinthians, the seventh chapter, that if one has a spouse who is not a devoted follower of Christ and does not want to be married to their spouse who is a devoted follower of Christ (the implication being that the believing spouse is being asked to choose between their faith in Christ and their spouse), then the unbelieving spouse is free to leave the marriage, to divorce.
The third most common reason clergy are willing to preside over weddings even if their has been a divorce in the past of one of the engaged parties is if the divorce occurred prior to their making a full profession of faith in Christ and living as one of His devoted followers. The logic being, and I agree, that we cannot expect people to live according to scripture in their spiritually unregenerate condition.
Because I believe the latter two are seldom in dispute, I want to concentrate my comments on the words spoken by Jesus in Matthew chapter 5. Granted, some would say that what Paul writes in Corinthians may be clear in regards to a person being free to divorce but being free to remarry is another issue entirely. We won't take up that issue in this posting, but I will say that I believe Paul's use of the phrase "is not bound" in verse 15 of 1 Corinthians chapter 7 implies being free to remarry if divorced in a way that is Biblical.
So, let's create the most difficult of scenarios. A man and a woman are devoted followers of Christ and their marriage ends in divorce. There is no adultery, by either spouse. We can imagine any of a number of instances. For example, they had special needs children and the demand of their care exhausted them. Or, one person seemed only interested in their career, never being home, completely neglecting the emotional needs of the other. Or, there was some trauma experienced, overwhelming grief of some kind that left one or both emotionally inept. Or, two people came to no longer love one another, both befuddled as to how they got there but both agreed the marriage was over. And for good measure, let's make it hard on ourselves, one spouse begged the other to stay, pledged to do whatever it would take to make it work, yet in the end, the other spouse denied their plea and the divorce ensued.
I'm sure you can think of many other circumstances, maybe your own personal circumstances. Some are maybe more complex, others maybe even more seemly inexcusable. The question before us is simply, are either spouse free to remarry without being viewed by God and The Church as an adulterer?
I may be on the verge of being accused of over-simplifying this very serious matter, but in my defense, I think that is in keeping with how Jesus Himself often responded to complex questions posed to Him. I don't believe that God ever intended the instructions of Jesus and Paul to be a closed, exhaustive list. I believe that God intended to teach a principle that is conveyed through examples given. I believe the principle that distinguishes between adultery or matrimony is whether or not the marriage has suffered damage that was irreparable. Jesus is saying that sexual immorality can be irreparable. Paul is saying spiritual discord can be irreparable. I believe God would agree that repeated physical abuse can leave a marriage in an irreparable state. If we take the stance that Matthew 5 and 1 Corinthians 7 are exhaustive lists, we've made no room for abuse. This alone compels me to believe a principle of irreparable condition is being taught and not a list to legalistically apply.
My approach as a pastor is to help a person who is divorced and intends to remarry to explore whether or not their past marriage is reconcilable or irreparable. Through prayer, honest conversation, hard questions, even professional counseling, we trust the Holy Spirit will guide us. This must be an honest, committed process, one that is often painful and even excrucitating. I am NOT proposing an "easy out" for people that just want to move on with The Church's "blessing." We are talking about a soul searching journey that may very well redeem a past relationship and if not, well prepare them so as not to repeat their past.
If we agree that the former marriage is irreconcilable, then a new process begins. Is it wise for the relationship they are in now to move forward towards marriage and how? There are a host of assessment tools available to clergy today, like Marriage Savers and for us to not avail ourselves and our marriage counselees to such resources is irresponsible. People who have been married before, if they have children, if there is abuse and trauma in their past, if they are culturally mixed...we must prepare them for the challenges this proposed marriage will face. Otherwise, we set them up for failure, more divorce.
If you would accuse me of lessening the sacredness of marriage, that I am elevating the need of the individual above the holiness of matrimony, I would rebut by saying that if we are going to turn the tide of divorce in our society, restore the sacredness of marriage, it will only be through the abundant propagation of healthy Christ centered marriages! Liberty grounded in wisdom and not restraint born out of legalism is always the prudent course.
I don't believe that God works off of lists. I believe His being is governed by truth. And the governing truth for me as a pastor in regards to discerning between Adultery and Matrimony is the principle of the irreparable relationship, beyond repair, that not only releases people to divorce but also gives them the liberty to re-marry.
Thanks for thinking with me!
Pastor Fred
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